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Post by janiemou on May 10, 2015 20:26:28 GMT 2
Yesterday we were driving through Acharavi on our way to the beach when we spotted a very large sheep in the back of a pick up truck, not tethered, just looking around as it passed through the town. The passenger in the car in front stuck a camera out of the window to take a photo. Steve and I just said 'It is a sheep not a goat isn't it?' with no surprise. We are no longer surprised at what we see on an every day basis, it just adds to the delight in living in such a quirky place. I would hate it to be completely taken over by rules and regulation , it would mean the loss of the Apes, held together with a hope and a promise, vans being driven down the street with olive trees hanging over the end. So many delights. On a separate note I came across this advert for Aperol on Facebook, just to say that you can get this wonderful aperitif in Skouna, and we recommend it. We told them about it after our journey through Italy and a chance conversation with Maggie. There is nothing better than sitting in Skouna watching the sun go down with a lovely glass of Aperol Spritz.. .
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Post by redwalks on May 10, 2015 21:10:11 GMT 2
I remember once being the passenger when my dad was driving around Corfu town. We were following a hearse, which was driving quite fast. As it took a roundabout we watched in horror as the coffin slid all over the place. Fortunately it wasn't ejected. Another classic, this time on the way home from Corfu town, was after being overtaken by an Ambulance. As it tried to regain it's lane discipline it clipped the curb and wobbled from 2 wheels to the other 2. Fortunately all 4 wheels settled back on the road and it carried on.
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Post by artisans on May 10, 2015 21:23:48 GMT 2
Reading what Jan has said about the sheep, I realised that for the first few years here I laughed at all these incidents. Now, I accept them as amusing, but part of life’s rich tapestry in Corfu. Maybe I have become as mad as they are, but perhaps this is the real world. It could explain why the ‘Nanny State,' insurance companies and ‘Health & Safety’ take so much of the colour out of the UK today ... perhaps we should put life before rules & regulations sometimes. Is this what brings so many visitors back to Greece?
Steve
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Post by guest on May 11, 2015 9:02:27 GMT 2
Tell that to the family who lost their children to carbon monoxide poisoning in corfu
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Post by artisans on May 11, 2015 10:58:45 GMT 2
I guess that the point of what I said was that we should all take responsibility for our own safety, which is very much what happens in Greece. Being nearer to a true democracy, power is vested in the people and exercised directly by them. The deaths of the two children was preventable and there should have been a chain of accountability to ensure faulty gas appliances could not be used. I remember a case in north Wales many years ago where two people suffered a similar fate, the Gas Board wriggled out of their responsibilities and the gas fitter carried the can. My perception is that these are similar circumstances, and for the ex-boss of the travel company to declare ‘no comment’ is unacceptable. This is the same man who almost brought the company to its knees and walked away with a golden handshake worth millions. That money would have been better spent by paying accommodation owners more to ensure that they meet the standards demanded by their customers.
I would still prefer to be accountable for myself than to allow politicians in Whitehall or Brussels to do everything for me.
Steve
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Post by redwalks on May 11, 2015 14:08:55 GMT 2
How empty has your life got to be to regularly check forums on the chance of being able to register something negative?
Obviously no one was condoning the deaths of those poor children. That could have happened anywhere (and will have done in other places) and, as Steve says, those responsible should have been held accountable.
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Post by beadle17 on May 11, 2015 14:25:37 GMT 2
I agree with the guest and Steve Bad things can happen in the world be it in corfu uk or any where else in the world I have Been coming to roda for many years and must say the facilities have improved greatly. On a final note I will be returning to roda in 21days time I have confidence in the apartmets(kosmas)where I am staying as I have been there before.o
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Post by kathwebber on May 11, 2015 15:59:44 GMT 2
Hmmmm! I have struggled with this topic - or the way it has almost veered off into another topic. I agree that the UK can get caught up in a "where there is blame - there is a claim" culture which I find abhorrent. However in the specific case of children losing their lives due to faulty equipment in an apartment / hotel they were staying I don't find it appropriate that anyone should shirk their responsibility or culpability. Whilst the ultimate responsibility lies with the tour operator the onus for the maintenance of the equipment surely lay with the people that "ran the hotel/apartments" and they were presumably Greek. I accept Steve's comment that we "should all take responsibility for our own safety" - but when I'm on holiday I have no way of knowing whether the air-con unit is faulty or emitting harmful fumes so place my trust on those insitu to ensure that my accommodation is safe.
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Post by artisans on May 11, 2015 18:48:32 GMT 2
On a package tour, Kath, your contract exists with the tour operator rather than the accommodation owner. It is therefore incumbent on the Thomas Cooks of this world to ensure the safety of their clients ... in my opinion. Obviously, independent visitors make their own judgement after their first visit. Thankfully, aircon units are electric and I have never come across a gas water heater in any of my visits to Corfu. I think they are more common in other countries such as Portugal.
Steve
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Post by kathwebber on May 11, 2015 19:23:04 GMT 2
I agree Steve to a certain extent and I believe that Thomas Cook should hang their heads in shame but I still don't think the people running/maintaining the complex/rooms are blameless. When I said aircon I obviously used the wrong example - I was referring to whatever was the faulty appliance in that awful incident.
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Post by redwalks on May 11, 2015 20:00:04 GMT 2
I can't believe this thread has turned into this, however, I would suspect the the terms of agreement any holiday firm would enter with an accommodation owner would put the onus of the properties being safe upon the property owner. Despite this bring Greece these are English (foreign) firms who would surely insist on such clauses to remove their potential liability. Saying that I was still disappointed that Thomas Cook didn't have enough about them to apologise for their part in the transaction. My previous point was why this had to be directed as a negative against Corfu. Yes it happened in Corfu on this occasion but this awful tragedy could have happened anywhere. It just saddens me that we often get these 'guests' who seem to be sitting there spying until any opportunity to be disparaging comes along. Antony
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Post by guest on May 11, 2015 20:43:29 GMT 2
I guess the point i was trying to make was that maybe irresponsible behaviour is just that- irresponsible behaviour. It may be fun to see a sheep or goat falling around in the back of an uninsured pickup with bald tyres and no exhaust pipe but what happens when the poor animal falls out or the olive tree also in the back falls off and crushes a tourist child in a buggy. Who is responsible when a hired non roadworthy quad bike is crashed by an unqualified driver into the same buggy? The hirer? The driver? Who was responsible for the faulty gas boiler? The person who installed it/serviced it? The accomodation owner? The tour operator? Or nobody? Its just one of those things that happens on holiday because attitudes are different in other countries. Is it justifiable for the accomodation owner to shrug their shoulders and say the tour operator only pays a pittance to them so they cannot afford to maintain a potentially deadly piece of equipment? We should all take responsibility for our own safety yes- but we should also expect certain standards set so irresponsible actions which can affect our safety are curbed, and there should be effective measures taken to ensure these standards are adhered to. I am not picking on Corfu/Roda particularly here- more on the original post and the subsequent ones which bemoaned the "nanny state" etc. I held up the example of the poor family and their terrible ordeal (in Corfu)as an example of an incidence where maybe less "laissez faire" would have saved two innocent lives. Indeed this is a case where "lives before rules and regulations" became "deaths after flaunting of rules and regulations" People come on holiday and must expect certain standards of health and safety surely?
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Post by redwalks on May 11, 2015 21:32:22 GMT 2
You're either deluded or naive to believe that it's only foreign property owners that are guilty of such negligence. Working in one of the Health & Safety Exec's main buildings I can tell you that there are enough deaths caused by UK property/business owners to suggest that there is similar neglect back at home. It's no wonder that UKIP got so much of the vote with such opinion.
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Post by artisans on May 11, 2015 23:22:40 GMT 2
Our ‘Guest’ says that “we should also expect certain standards set so irresponsible actions which can affect our safety are curbed, and there should be effective measures taken to ensure these standards are adhered to.” But what about the great many tourists who actually come to Greece to flaunt the rules in the expectation that they won’t get caught? Think about those who holiday here to smoke freely in bars and coffee shops, to ride quad-bikes & scooters without helmets and all sorts of other things that are actually against the rules.
Harry S. Truman famously said that “the buck stops here” and the company involved in this tragedy should have adopted that stance. Of course we should “expect certain standards to be set so irresponsible actions which can affect our safety are curbed, and effective measures taken to ensure these standards are adhered to”, but by whom? Surely it must be the operator with whom we make our booking – the one we pay our money to, thereby creating a legal contract. It is up to them to police the package they are selling us, including their suppliers. Most people book package tours for the simple reason that they believe their tour operator has covered all the bases and can be trusted to guarantee their best interests.
The head of any such company, the person who makes all the decisions, must surely accept ultimate responsibility for all such decisions. Managers, reps and suppliers – everyone down the chain is under his or her control. To say nothing in defense is a travesty.
Steve
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Post by guest on May 12, 2015 9:01:05 GMT 2
And what about the tourists who don’t want to be subjected to cancer causing secondary smoking, or be mown down by drunken maniacs on quad bikes. What about the grief and wailing that will happen when the inevitable happens and an overcrowded tourist boat flips over and drowns dozens of innocent children while the captain is clowning around and being a character on deck. In the tragic case previously mentioned, of course the operator should and I am sure does set safety standards and police them also. They obviously failed or were hoodwinked. I’m not sure a package tour operator can shoulder the blame for the irresponsible actions of a person driving an overloaded pickup with an unsecured olive tree on the back or a bar that allows underage drinking or drug dealing on its premises.
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