|
Post by artisans on Nov 14, 2008 17:39:05 GMT 2
Copied from the internet following information from Pete - watch this space:
'Is Kiss Flights the XL Phoenix 10.08.2008 - Cheap-holidays
Is Kiss flights going to take over the proportion of the capacity lost with the collapse of XL Leisure Group and its 21-strong airline fleet is likely to be filled by next summer?
“Someone will come and provide the capacity, some are already gearing up to do that.
Kiss flights is being run by ex XL airways management fancy that… His comments came as speculation mounted at the convention that a new carrier called Kiss Flights was being established by unnamed backers to fill the vacuum left with the failure of XL and its in-house carrier XL Airways. Kiss flights is being run by ex XL airways management fancy that…
While major tour operators have welcomed the capacity reduction resulting from the XL failure, many smaller tour operator firms with programmes particularly to Greece and the Greek islands have been left without aircraft availability for next summer.
XL Airways provided a large proportion of third party flying for a range of specialist operators, many who are now in a precarious position due to the absence of adequate air lift.
Industry sources suggested that the founders of Kiss Flights were attempting to acquire a small executive jet outfit in order to use its Air Operators Certificate to deploy a number of leased Boeing 737s from the UK for summer 2009.' [/i]
|
|
|
Post by artisans on Nov 14, 2008 17:43:00 GMT 2
Kiss Flights
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
'Kiss Flights is a seat only tour operator (a trading name of Meridian Aviation UK Ltd) to service the UK flight only market from Summer 2009. Some of their flights will be operated by the swedish airline Viking Airlines. Kiss Flights is registered with the United Kingdom Civil Aviation Authority ATOL scheme. '
|
|
|
Post by gailie66 on Nov 15, 2008 20:40:37 GMT 2
Kiss flights!!!!!!!!!!! does that mean we can kiss our money goodbye.Don't like the sound of them have already been stung with the collapse of xl this year.I have now received my official caa claim number but have been told it will be 8-12 weeks before i get my money back,have already waited 9 weeks what a joke
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2008 0:20:05 GMT 2
From the first link it appears that some one from XL Management has taken over with Kiss, through Meridian Aviation. See what some Ex XL employees have to say in comments on this page. Kiss being part of the Viking Group, all flights appear to have the Viking coding. KISS FLIGHT NEWSThis next link is the Kiss Booking. First return flights in May 2009 (Flight Only) is £226 per person, £370 in August, and £230 in September. In my opinion, not a great difference from others. KISS FLIGHT BOOKINGSJust a case of wait and see. Yeiamas, Chris
|
|
|
Post by artisans on Nov 16, 2008 9:05:43 GMT 2
Thanks for those links, Chris. One area of concern is that 'Kiss' have an ATOL license for just 25,000 flights when it seems that they are offering for sale 137,000 holidays. Clearly this issue needs to be resolved and/or explained.
Steve
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2008 15:40:13 GMT 2
Hi Steve. I have emailed the Kiss Flights Booking to ask about those figures, as it made me think again and again after posting. I will let the forum know if and when I get a reply.
Regarding Easyjet. From experience, one can email Easyjet as much as you like, and I know, and you will get the same answer, sometimes worded in a different way, but the same answer. Nothing until December. I am having doubts, hopefully unfounded, but Easyjet are giving out schedules for other destinations, and telling us that they have to wait for slots at Corfu before publishing a schedule. Yet many other airlines/flights are already giving out theirs. Such as Kiss and Aegean Airlines in the last few days, and many more.
If Easyjet intened to go into a consortium with Virgin Atlantic over Gatwick Airport, you can expect that Easyjet will be looking for bigger things, and longer distances to get the money.
Yeiamas, Chris
|
|
|
Post by artisans on Nov 16, 2008 15:47:26 GMT 2
I share your scepticism, Chris. These are multi-million pound businesses with a lot of political influence and easyJet's answer is a bit lame. If I was in charge, I'd be thumping the table to get my 2009 schedule finalised. It may not be bad news, of course - just playing the field. A bit more customer information would go a long way.
Steve
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2008 17:02:35 GMT 2
In light of my scepticism, ;D, and some concerns on reading the Kiss Flight websites again I have sent the following email to them for any clarification on this issue.
I reperesent various websites in respect of holidays to destinations in Corfu. I am interested in your schedules for next year as I a number of our members are frequent flyers to this island. Having looked at your Booking website, and ULookUBook.com regarding the Kiss website. It states that you have an ATOL Licence for 25000 holidays, yet when looking at your booking website, it offers upto 137000 holidays for 2009. Who decides which ones are not ATOL covered.
In light of recent matters such as XL, many potential holidaymakers will be very apprehensive in booking without the assurity of being covered in the event of another collapse.
Can you assure me that this is not the case.
Kind regards Christopher Way
I will post any replies if and when receive to the forum on receipt.
Yeiamas, Chris
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2008 14:19:42 GMT 2
This is the reply I got back in answer to my email above. From this I take it they do have 25000 seats, but the other 107000 are offered out to other airlines. There for it is up to the buyer to ensure that who ever they purchase their ticket from it is ATOL protected. However, was this not the reason why a lot of XL passengers were stumped, becaust Flights Only are not normally ATOL protected. Perhaps this maybe worth another email to Kiss. I shall have to check back through the XL story.
Yeiamas, Chris
Dear Christopher, Thank you for your interest in Kiss Flights. We are a seat only tour operator which has allocation on the flights you see through our website. Other tour operators will have been provided with seats on the flights also. Therefore we do not have all the seats on every flight we advertise meaning we do not have 137,000 seats for sale. Bookings made through Kiss Flights will be covered by our ATOL licence 9853. If you have any further questions please let me know. Yours Sincerely,
|
|
pete sant
Roda Anorak
Roda Riddler 2008
UNITED - NOT ARROGANT - JUST BETTER
Posts: 6,977
|
Post by pete sant on Nov 17, 2008 14:26:30 GMT 2
Hi Chris, as you may know , i was caught up in the XL. collapse - i was flight only, booked on the net and was not covered, even though all my paperwork had the abta & atol logos on it. I think people will be very wary before booking flights for next year, especially looking at the prices. pete.
|
|
|
Post by artisans on Nov 17, 2008 16:05:55 GMT 2
Thanks, Chris - does that mean that when they have sold their allocation of 25,000, they turn orders down? I wonder if they can increase their allocation later on and, if so, are those flights ATOL bonded? If you contact them further, perhaps you can ask.
Many Thanks Steve
|
|
|
Post by artisans on Nov 17, 2008 16:10:57 GMT 2
If 'Kiss' have 25000 passenger places on 11 routes from each of two UK airports, that only allows them to fly 22 couples per week on each route. It doesn't sound much to me, although, as their letter says, they are a seat-only operator without the overhead of owning expensive aircraft.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2008 17:02:27 GMT 2
I will contact them again, and see what sort of reply we get. The more I read this and the Kiss websites, I am not happy at their proposals.
I know they are flying to Corfu on a Monday (bad day), so must be spreading out the other destinations over the week.
I will get back to you on this one.
Yeiamas, Chris
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2008 17:54:11 GMT 2
This is the email I have sent back to Kiss. I think in a roundabout way I have got the questions across that need answering. Let us see what this brings back.
Yeiamas, Chris
Thank you for your speedy response. However, I am at a loss as to how one works out the number of seats available which will be under the ATOL system. I can establish that Kiss, although being flight only will have their seats covered. However, if Kiss are only using 25000 seats, what guarantee do we have that the others will be ATOL registered. Here I would like to point out, in the XL crisis, those who booked through other operators, according to paperwork were ATOL registered, but did not receive any support or compensation because they were flight only.
Looking at figures just from Gatwick for 2009. Kiss advertises 20 flights a week to various destinations as listed. None are dual stops, just straight flights from LGW to a destination. If as notified, Kiss will be using Boeing 737 - 800 series aircraft. This has a seating capacity of 189 passengers if flying at a single class useage, less if using a two class system. Going on the one class system, 20 flights per week, with 189 passengers = 3700 passengers per week. Over a season of 22 weeks = 83160 passengers.
Moving on to Manchester, Kiss advertise 19 flights a week, to similar destinations with some variations. Using the same figures above, 19 flights per week, with 189 passengers = 3591, over a season of 22 weeks = 79002 passengers.
This is a total of 162162 passengers throughout 2009. You have stated that you will be using 25000 seats, which leaves a deficit of some 137162 seats for sale. Or in your words for other airlines to use. Admittedly, some of these airlines could be of a package deal, which will be fully ATOL protected, but we have not assurity that the others, or all if flight only will have that insurance.
Why is Kiss only using 25000. If there are 39 flights per week, over a 22 week period = 858 flights, then this equivalent to 29 passengers per flight. 160 seats remaining on each flight.
Our next question is, if these seats are not filled, then inevitably flights will be cancelled.
I appreciate it is a lot of questions, but in light of the XL fiasco, many 2009 passengers will be very cautious on booking and will want all the assurities possible to ensure they do not have the same problems next year. There is evidence that Kiss have taken a number of the XL slots. What assurance can Kiss give.
Kind Regards Christopher Way
|
|
|
Post by artisans on Nov 17, 2008 18:17:35 GMT 2
Difficult to cover all the issues in one letter, Chris - let us see what the response is. Optimism tinged with caution is not an easy mood to make decisions with. I'm sure that if 'Kiss' can answer their customers' concerns adequately, they will be well supported.
Steve
|
|