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Post by artisans on Jun 28, 2011 17:41:35 GMT 2
It seems that strikes are re-emerging all over Europe as times get harder for everyone. In Greece, there will be two days of rolling strikes starting on Tuesday and it is likely they will involve all forms of transport such as ferries, flights and buses. Private hire coaches should continue as normal.
(The two days I refer to is actually today & tomorrow - haven't noticed anything here yet, but it is quiet)
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Post by jeanp on Jun 28, 2011 19:46:15 GMT 2
Steve, as this is a General Strike are the people on Corfu involved.....
I remember being in Roda Sept/Oct 1988 when there was a strike on Corfu and the Greek 'Mafia' came round on motorbikes making sure everyone joined the strike. Those that hadn't had there places smashed in. The Afrodite was one and several shops on the front had there windows smashed.....it was pretty scary at the time (and exciting) but needless to say it didn't put us off....... For a couple of days we couldn't even hire a sunbed off Andreas.....and we had to queue at the bakery for 8 slices of bread each morning......
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Post by artisans on Jun 28, 2011 20:35:47 GMT 2
I remember you telling me that before Jean, but there has been no sign of anything in Roda today. When I first read the report I thought it must be next week until I realised what day it is! I think that these situations will worsen across Europe generally and I see already that there are marches in the UK and a reported air traffic & teachers' strike on Friday. In my limited view, I perceive Greece to be one of the most democratic countries in Europe (after all, they invented the thing!) and public protest is not as rigidly controlled as in the UK as human rights are better respected. In the biggest cities, things sometimes get out of hand as they do anywhere. It is a tragedy if it ruins someone's holiday after so much saving and anticipation, but it is a sign of the troubled world in which we live. I guess similar things are happening across Europe, but it is Greece that gets the attention. One local businessman said to me this week that Greece is being used as an example to beat the populations of other countries into submission so that they toe the line - in other words, it is the scapegoat of Europe. He may be right ... Steve
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2011 23:45:20 GMT 2
A problem could arise if Greece continue to have these strikes, in particular the Air Traffic Controllers. The knock on effect is that it does effect travellers from the UK, maybe not this time, but next time, or the next time. With austerity hitting the UK, and as we have discussed on this forum, more and more are finding it hard to get a holiday together, to have a hard worked for holiday disrupted, or delay, or even cancelled, will not help the cause.
Greece needs a government that is hard and fast, and stands by its austerity rulings. Here in the UK very few are supporting the strikes on Thursday, and the government is standing by its meaning.
Lets hope things get sorted soon, and everyone realises it is unfortunate neccesity to carry out these austerity actions for the good of Greece.
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Post by kathwebber on Jun 29, 2011 7:42:04 GMT 2
Chris, I couldnt agree with you more. As Greece and Corfu in particular rely so heavily on tourism for their income it smacks of biting off the hand that feeds you to strike in a way that prevents tourists from coming to your country and spending money! As Steve points out, times are hard almost everywhere in Europe (I have personal experience) but I will never agree with strikes and I am a died in the wool labour supporter!
I do hope a solution can be found but I suspect what ever that may be it will be painful.
kind regards, Kath
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Post by sthelenssaint on Jun 29, 2011 8:03:53 GMT 2
whilst not condoning violence it is, in a democracary everyones right to strike ,on tv last night a doctor . and yes he was a union member ,stated he earns 1500 euros a month .yet under the austerity mesures he will pay more tax,whilst the richest 10% will not . ipaid £580 for my 2 weeks in corfu comparison?? as for greece needing a" hard and fast" goverment.nonsense ,all that type of goverment will attack is the low paid the sick and the dis-enfranchised whilst keeping their own little inde linked ,vast pensions and bonuses. get real chris and realise that the greek economic collapse has been caused by the people you now espouse . and sorry kath sometimes strikes are the only option when all your arguments are just ignored .and as pointed out on this forum greece is the seat of democracy and the right to strike /withdraw your labour is at the heart of that democracy
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Post by kathwebber on Jun 29, 2011 8:16:40 GMT 2
Sthelenssaint, I didnt say that people should not have the right to strike - simply that I dont agree with striking! You say a doctor (presumably Greek) said he earned 1500 euros a month ! I think that has been part of the problem in Greece for years - that professional people say they earn a pittance whilst enjoying a lifestyle far and above their 'stated' and taxable earnings - I think its called tax evasion and that is what affects the lower paid in any society - when the people that actually earn the most, evade tax.
So, whilst I agree that in a democracy people have the right to strike - I personally could never strike and dont condone people that do - we just have to agree to disagree.
regards, Kath.
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Post by pete sant on Jun 29, 2011 8:35:08 GMT 2
U.K strikes not supported ? 3000 schools closed tomorrow, massive disruption at U.K. borders with warnings of chaos for travellers. As already stated this is a europe wide problem that is far from over. pete.
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Post by artisans on Jun 29, 2011 9:01:49 GMT 2
I agree with you John - I've never been a lover of strikes, but what else can you do when all else fails? Protesting is an essential ingredient of any democratic system and to deny it diminishes the democratic process. To persuade the population that striking is wrong may be preferable for government, but it is certainly less democratic.
We once saw a top kidney specialist at the hospital here who earned €1000 per month. In a few weeks, she had achieved what the NHS had failed to do in several months. People like this deserve the right to earn a decent living.
Steve
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Post by artisans on Jun 29, 2011 9:06:41 GMT 2
Just shows how democratic Greece is, Kath, tax evasion is not just the domain of the rich - everyone is at it! - Much fairer .... Perhaps for many, it's the only way to survive .. Steve
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2011 9:26:51 GMT 2
To add further to the injury, the UK Border Control have decided to take strike action tomorrow in support of the Public Sector Workers Strike action. This is/will cause long delays to passengers at Passport and Immigration Control at all UK airports. Passengers are advised to check before departures.
The Greece government goes to the polls today to vote on accepting the bailout offer, or to resist the borrowing which inevitably result in bankruptcy. It is a dilemma that any government could do with out. On one hand if further loans are accepted, pushing the country further into debt, they are then committed to paying off the billions of loans, which could escalate the strike action into, quote, civil unrest, and even civil war. Bankruptcy on the other hand could be the withdrawal from the Eurozone altogether, and wiping out all the debt, with a possibility of returnng to the Drachma, which would be worth less than the Euro. At the same time, with debts being wiped out, this could mean trouble for countries who made the loans, in furthering their own financial problems, and giving the rights to Ireland and Portugal to do the same, where even the UK invested hundreds of billion Euros in these countries, in particular Ireland.
Europe awaits the decision, probably around 1pm UK time.
I have to admit, I am against all strike action. Perhaps it is my armed forces background. There are other ways of getting action. Strikes are for the weak who believe it is their right to hold the country and governments to ransom. Since Thatcher hit the unions back in the 80s, strike action has been fundatmentally useless.
Members of the Armed Forces cannot strike, it is against the Queens Regulations. Yet as we all know many men and women are risking their lives every day, and have no say in the matter. It is not just Afghanistan, but Iraq, Falklands, Northern Ireland, Belize, Greece and Turkey, Libya, Lebanon, Cyprus, Far East, and many more since the WW2. Yet our armed forces just got on with it, and have to have charities set up to help them on their return and more. I do not think teachers come anywhere near this. As for pensions, the armed forces only get a pension if they have served 22yrs, and this about to change. If they do not serve the time, they wait for a preserved pension at 60, again will probably change. Yet in my opinion they have earnt their pensions. Above and beyond the call of duty.
Tomorrow, will be a waste of time and space.
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Post by holidayman on Jun 29, 2011 11:55:42 GMT 2
Like most of the forum members i have been saddened by the events taking place in Greece over the last few days.
This article on proposed measures was online this morning - what would you feel if faced with this:
The five-year plan was changed last week to allow for more money to be raised through tax increases and less money to be saved through spending cuts.
The plan involves cutting 14.32bn euros ($20.50bn; £12.82bn) of public spending, while raising 14.09bn euros in taxes over five years.
These are some of the austerity measures planned.
TAXATION Taxes will increase by 2.32bn euros this year, with additional taxes of 3.38bn euros in 2012, 152m euros in 2013 and 699m euros in 2014.
A solidarity levy of between 1% and 5% of income will be levied on households to raise 1.38bn euros.
The tax-free threshold for income tax will be lowered from 12,000 to 8,000 euros.
There will be higher property taxes
VAT rates are to rise: the 19% rate will increase to 23%, 11% becomes 13%, and 5.5% will increase to 6.5%.
The VAT rate for restaurants and bars will rise to 23% from 13%.
Luxury levies will be introduced on yachts, pools and cars.
Some tax exemptions will be scrapped
Excise taxes on fuel, cigarettes and alcohol will rise by one third.
Special levies on profitable firms, high-value properties and people with high incomes will be introduced.
PUBLIC SECTOR CUTS The public sector wage bill will be cut by 770m euros in 2011, 600m euros in 2012, 448m euros in 2013, 300m euros in 2014 and 71m euros in 2015.
Nominal public sector wages will be cut by 15%.
Wages of employees of state-owned enterprises will be cut by 30% and there will be a cap on wages and bonuses.
All temporary contracts for public sector workers will be terminated.
Only one in 10 civil servants retiring this year will be replaced and only one in 5 in coming years.
SPENDING CUTS Defence spending will be cut by 200m euros in 2012, and by 333m euros each year from 2013 to 2015.
Health spending will be cut by 310m euros this year and a further 1.81bn euros in 2012-2015, mainly by lowering regulated prices for drugs.
Public investment will be cut by 850m euros this year.
Subsidies for local government will be reduced.
Education spending will be cut by closing or merging 1,976 schools.
CUTTING BENEFITS Social security will be cut by 1.09bn euros this year, 1.28bn euros in 2012, 1.03bn euros in 2013, 1.01bn euros in 2014 and 700m euros in 2015.
There will be more means-testing and some benefits will be cut.
The government hopes to collect more social security contributions by cracking down on evasion and undeclared work.
The statutory retirement age will be raised to 65, 40 years of work will be needed for a full pension and benefits will be linked more closely to lifetime contributions.
PRIVATISATION The government aims to raise 50bn euros from privatisations by 2015, including: Selling stakes this year in the betting monopoly OPAP, the lender Hellenic Postbank, port operators Piraeus Port and Thessaloniki Port as well as Thessaloniki Water.
It has agreed to sell 10% of Hellenic Telecom to Deutsche Telekom for about 400m euros.
Next year, the government plans to sell stakes in Athens Water, refiner Hellenic Petroleum, electricity utility PPC, lender ATEbank as well as ports, airports, motorway concessions, state land and mining rights.
It plans further sales to raise 7bn euros in 2013, 13bn euros in 2014 and 15bn euros in 2015. Sources: Reuters, Greek Ministry of Finance Economic Policy Programme Newsletter
I hope whatever the vote turns out to be today it is taken in the interests of the Greek people for a change and not the politicitions self preservation.
I feel this is just the start of the downfall of the Eurozone in general and at the end of the day when the EU/IMF Golden Goose stops laying it is the ordinary people who will suffer the consequences and be left to pick up the pieces.
Couldn't happen in the UK? - how many of us are compromising on our lifestyles these days due to inflation/job losses/wage reductions/contract changes/general price rises.
We here in the UK are also in a deep recession and it is our right like the Greeks and all free peoples to exercise our feelings in a manner we feel appropriate to the situation.
I do not condone the violence which is happening however if striking is the best method of protest then so be it.
Maybe it is time for change in Greece - lets just hope it is for the best.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2011 14:44:19 GMT 2
I have just been watching the news and was baffled as to why some of the mindless few (not real strikers) are wrecking buildings, both external and internal such as McDonalds in the Square. What does that achieve other than putting more people out of work. A total waste of time, a defeatist attitude.
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Post by holidayman on Jun 29, 2011 15:53:59 GMT 2
Totally agree Chris. Everywhere there are protests now in any country you can be sure the big brave bully boys and girls ( with their faces completely covered of course in case they are recognised ) will be there to smash and wreck. Not that they know why they are there or what their protesting against but it seems to be par for the course now unfortunately.
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Post by artisans on Jun 29, 2011 17:01:38 GMT 2
I hear what you say, Chris, but I am led to believe that members of the armed forces in Greece have a union. I have also heard it suggested that it may one day exist in the UK too. Sign of the times ..
Steve
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