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Post by lisydaly on May 5, 2010 16:10:47 GMT 2
According to a news broadcast I listened to last night tourism is down by 50% in Greece already this year compared to last - and last year was a bad year. Today's antics with 3 dead in a burning bank in Athens won't help either. I fully sympathise with the Greeks but this won't do them any good in the long run - we are all in this mess, not just them, and I'm guessing we in Ireland won't be far behind their deficit, nor will Portugal and Spain.
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Post by artisans on May 5, 2010 21:57:10 GMT 2
Hi lisydaly - I would be interested to know what conclusions you draw from the announcement that tourism in Greece is down - or anyone else for that matter.
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Post by lisydaly on May 6, 2010 9:36:10 GMT 2
I don't draw any concrete conclusions about tourism being down in Greece - it's down everywhere. People have various reasons for not wanting to travel - lack of money, high costs of flights, job loss and the chaos of the ash cloud last month will have put more people off. People like me who go to Corfu because we love it and support it aren't in big enough numbers to make a huge difference to tourist numbers and the Greek economy. As an example of costs - we have to pay to leave Ireland - 10 euro each for the Knock airport development fund if flying from there, and air taxes on top of that. If we want to take luggage add another 30 euro each for a checked in bag - there's no such thing as a free flight and it all adds up. Our cost of living has gone up - as it will in Greece, it has to, and this will have another knock on effect. I think the days of cheap holidays are over - and just so you don't think I'm knocking Corfu, which I'm not, Ireland's tourist industry is in massive decline, and Spain is the same according to friends we have who live there. I don't know what the answer is, but it certainly isn't rioting on the streets and buring people in banks. It was a Greek we were listening to and he was the first Greek person I have listened to who had a broader picture of the trouble his country is in. I wish I had an answer, but I don't, apart from the fact that going into the euro was the worst thing we could have done - countries should have kept their own currencies.
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2010 12:26:51 GMT 2
I think what we must first understand and realise is the fact that yesterdays strike marches was not a full picture of the majorities way of thinking. 84% of the Greek population (according to a Greek media source) are for the governments way of sorting out the problem by borrowing, raising taxes, raising VAT, at the same time, clamping on Pension and Wage rises.
Those causing the big problems yesterday, are the same type of people that every country has, including our own. A communist faction who is hell bent on disrupting any lawful protest, march or strike.
It is estimated in total that 100,000 people attended the march yestereday in Athens. This is not a huge representation of Greece is it.
The holiday industry is suffering, across the board for many reasons. The present Greek crisis has not hit in on this as yet, but no doubt it will do in time to come. For instance, as the figures are set for this year, will the proposed VAT rises come into force now, or will we see more of it in the 2011 season.
It is common knowledge that the way things are in Greece is down to everyone in some way or another, small or large. Therefore it is only right that everyone should be involved in getting Greece back to some sort of stabilisation.
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Post by lukert09 on May 6, 2010 19:20:56 GMT 2
they said today that greek islands ie:corfu tourism isnt as down as mainland .. good to hear that. lets hope its sorted soon a great country with greatpeople.
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Post by sthelenssaint on May 6, 2010 19:59:58 GMT 2
sorry chris but 100 ,000 is a big lump of people protesting about cuts in public pay and pensions ,and its well known "AUSTERITY MEASURES "invariably hit the low paid .how would it be if the goverment here ,no matter which party cut pensions and pay of public and goverment employees {which could include armed forces nurses doctors teachers carers} the list is endless what might the results be here . and let me say i am not condoning direct action and as a matter of interest i wonder how many of the 84%wok in the public sector . as reported in most media outlets the greek people have been misled by their various goverments over the last 20 years and i refer to lukert09 post he is correct greek people are great people. at least the ones i have met but i have not met any greek ,s involved in goverment
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Post by artisans on May 6, 2010 21:13:59 GMT 2
What people may not realise is that reports about tourism figures in Corfu apply to the whole of the island. With the investment that is going into the main port in Corfu Town, cruise ships appear with increasing regularity. Whilst tourism overall may improve, the balance has shifted in such a way that Corfu Town is doing very well at the expense of the coastal resorts.
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Post by artisans on May 6, 2010 21:22:06 GMT 2
Slightly flippant remark, John, but yes you have! All Greeks are involved in government - this is the original democracy and everyone shows an interest and gets involved. Somewhere in the dim distant past, we did an article on 'idiotiki' - the private, or insane people who were the only ones not expected to take part in government - local or otherwise. What we now understand as democracy seems to have gone off in some other direction - here, it is much closer to the original concept. We don't support the violence, but protests & strikes are a part of everyday life - a platform for anyone to voice their opinions.
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Post by sthelenssaint on May 6, 2010 22:19:19 GMT 2
not meant to be flippant what i said is what i meant ,i have never met a greek who holds political HIGH OFFICE OTHERWISE HIGHLY SALARIED POSITIONS who after creating the problem , then proceed to lecture ,threaten and impose conditions that do not threaten to damage their own lifestyle, but then again this is not in the sole ownership of greek politicians .for greek maybe substitute british EXPENSES ? no not flippant .... but i do understand greece is the cradle of democracy perhaps the politico,s have thrown out the baby with the bathwater. again i re-iterate i do not condone violence as a form of protest , but in the case of the newspaper seller who was allegedll clubbed and died at a demo in london it is sadly not confined to protestors
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Post by artisans on May 6, 2010 23:07:07 GMT 2
Sorry John, I was saying that I was flippant!
Steve
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2010 0:11:42 GMT 2
I too like the Greek people and all for they are, and how much they have put into our way of lives over the centuries. But what other way can the financial problem be resolved in Greece without austere actions. On every forum we read with regards to Greece/Corfu, we often here of how a large number will cook the books so to speak, and not pay the correct taxes etc. We also know that this is across the board, from the worker to the upper class, the latter no doubt being the worst.
Is there any other way, or are you happy to see Greece go under. For instance, VAT is rising to 23%. This is going to hit the workers of the bars and restaurants. The very places we frequent on holiday. So we also are going to have an ever increasing cost to go on holiday, not just Greece, but Spain and Portugal. And if anyone think this is the last stand are wrong, because this will go on, and later Greece will have to pay back, and if the money is not coming back into government, then up it goes again.
What is stopping it happening in the UK. Our debt is worse, but we stayed out of the Eurozone. But it could happen, and lets face it, our own government are already implementing austere actions, such as fuel tax, reinstating VAT, lesser pay rises, cut backs, and more. However, as much as we dislike it, this is something we have to accept.
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Post by sthelenssaint on May 7, 2010 7:59:01 GMT 2
correct chris. what i am saying is for instance ,the vat rise will not hit the wealthy as hard as it hits the working man and as for cooking the books maybe we should look closer to home , ie nom-dom expenses gross large pensions for MP.s who did "cook the books".
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2010 15:38:42 GMT 2
I appreciate that John, with regards to who will be hit most. However, unlike the UK where we know of the higher echelon fiddling the books, it is also a fact, and well known by most, that this is across the board in Greece. Sadly the working class will be hit more, but at the same time, VAT hits everyone, specially a 4% rise, on top of wage and pensions restraints, and more income tax.
It will be worth seeing what happens over the coming weeks or months. In the meantime, it is back to seeing what our own country is now going to do after yesterdays fiasco.
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Post by sthelenssaint on May 7, 2010 21:14:52 GMT 2
correct again chris , but a 4% increase in vat is always going to be more punative to someone on 18 grand a year, who does jobs at weekend. than someone on 70 grand plus expenses or in receipt of mega bonuses. john
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Post by sthelenssaint on May 7, 2010 21:17:03 GMT 2
steve sorry i was on a roll
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